The verdict against NAR in the Sitzer lawsuit has organized real estate up in arms.
But Michael Lissack thinks the decision is the best thing to happen to the industry in 100 years.
In fact, he sees the trade association as a criminal enterprise with little value beyond MLS access.
Michael is Managing Broker for The Virtual Realty Group, a 100% commission brokerage that operates in 12 states.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Michael joins Greg to discuss the real issue behind the lawsuits against NAR and describe what he would do to make buyer’s agent commission negotiable.
Michael explains why it’s necessary to decouple the MLS from NAR membership and how that would likely lead to bankruptcy for the trade association.
Listen in for Michael’s provocative take on why associations don’t deserve a way forward in a world where MLS access is open to anyone with a real estate license.
What’s Discussed:
The real issue behind the lawsuits against NAR and several real estate brokerages
What Michael would do to make buyer’s agent commission negotiable
Why the DOJ takes issue with mandatory membership in NAR for MLS access
How decoupling the MLS from NAR would impact everyday REALTORS
What decoupling the MLS from NAR membership would do to the trade association (and what NAR might do to demonstrate its value and rebuild)
What it would take to decouple local, state and NAR membership
Why Michael believes a real estate license should be the only requirement for MLS access
Running MLSs as not-for-profit organizations vs. for-profit entities
Greg’s thoughts on providing a way forward for associations by compensating them for the work of building the MLS
Why bankruptcy might be apt for associations who don’t provide value beyond MLS access
Connect with Michael Lissack:
Resources:
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In 2020 Ben knew they needed to make a change. So he went to the Black Knight board and made a pitch, “give me the resources to build a modern MLS system”. To his surprise, they said yes. Now, 3 years later, that dream has been realized.
His dream was a mobile-first MLS platform that understands the history of how MLS platforms operate but offers a modern user experience.
That’s exactly what Ben Graboske and Lucie Fortier are working on, and their new product, Paragon Connect, is ready for its close up.
Ben is President of Data & Analytics and Lucie is Executive Vice President of MLS Solutions at Intercontinental Exchange or ICE, the financial services firm that bought Black Knight in September 2023.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Ben and Lucie join Greg to discuss ICE’s history of digitizing complex transactions and explain why its acquisition of Black Knight makes sense.
Lucie shares her motivation for joining the team at Intercontinental Exchange, and Ben describes how ICE’s resources benefit his department in the development of Paragon Connect.
Listen in to understand what differentiates Paragon Connect from other MLS vendors and learn how it simplifies the agent experience by providing an entire MLS platform on both a responsive and native app.
What’s Discussed:
ICE’s history of digitizing complicated transactions and why its acquisition of Black Knight makes sense
How being an MLS vendor supports ICE’s vision for making mortgages easier
Lucie’s journey to joining the ICE team and how technology drives her career decisions
What features differentiate Paragon Connect from other MLS vendors
Why Ben’s team decided not to change Paragon’s name (despite offering an entirely new experience)
How Paragon Connect provides an entire MLS platform in a native app experience
The talented team of designers behind Paragon Connect
How Ben’s team benefits from ICE’s data assets and information security
Lucie’s approach to transitioning existing users to Paragon Connect
How Paragon is introducing a consumer app in Q1 of 2024
Why the rules around marketing to members need to change in an MLS system-of-choice model
What makes Paragon Connect ‘the MLS platform of the future’
Connect with Ben Graboske & Lucie Fortier:
Email lucie.fortier@bkfs.com
Resources:
ICE Acquisition of Black Knight
Damien Huze on Listing Bits EP85
Paragon Connect on Vendor Alley
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Listing Bits EP085: A Less, But Better Approach to Real Estate Software Design – with Damien Huze of Lone Wolf Technologies
Among Dieter Rams’ Ten Principles of Design is the idea that good design is as little design as possible.
Less, but better.
And Damien Huze believes that the next evolution of real estate software will apply this concept, offering fewer high-quality apps that work together in a fluid system.
Damien is Senior Design Manager and Principal Designer at Lone Wolf Technologies, a software company working to build an end-to-end solution for real estate.
Damien served as Chief Design Officer at W+R studios before the Lone Wolf acquisition, and he is responsible for the design of Cloud CMA, one of the most popular apps in real estate.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Damien explains how making design a priority benefits companies building web-based apps and why he defines design as a skill aimed at problem-solving.
Damien describes how Lone Wolf is working to combine the tools of proptech into a single streamlined experience and shares his team’s user-centric approach to the problem of simplifying real estate.
Listen in for insight on the power of relentless focus and learn about Damien’s vision for designing real estate software that delivers more with less.
What’s Discussed:
What Damien learned from growing up with creative parents who immigrated to the US
How making design a priority benefits companies building web-based apps (and why so few do it)
How Damien thinks about design as a skill aimed at problem-solving
What Lone Wolf is doing to bring several real estate apps together in a single end-to-end solution
Why Damien believes the next evolution in real estate software is ‘less but better’
Lone Wolf’s upcoming announcement at the T3 Technology Summit
What it means for good software to have an opinion vs. being too flexible or customizable
How Damien’s team brings a user-centric, design thinking approach to simplifying real estate
Greg and Damien’s take on the advantage of simple tools that get the job done
The well-designed product that’s had the biggest impact on Damien’s life
Why relentless focus boosts productivity and how Damien applies that tenet to design
Connect with Damien Huze:
Resources:
Dieter Rams’ 10 Principles of Good Design
Our Sponsors:
In 2021, Vijay Gopalswamy’s real estate business was growing like gangbusters. And at one point, he had 32 active transactions.
Which meant Vijay was spending every morning with his team, going over each transaction and asking, ‘Did you send this? Did you follow up with that? Did this contract get signed?’
But when he looked at the “transaction management” software on the market, Vijay realized that it was built for brokerages, not agents.
So, he set out to solve his own problem.
Vijay is Cofounder and CEO of Trackxi, a deal tracking software platform that helps agents visualize the next step in each transaction and provides full transparency for the consumer.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Vijay discusses his successful career in mechanical engineering and explains how he became an accidental real estate agent.
Vijay describes what differentiates Trackxi from other transaction management solutions and how it serves teams, transaction coordinators and new agents.
Listen in for insight around the visual nature of Trackxi’s tracking system and find out how the app can help you demonstrate your value prop with clients and grow your real estate business!
What’s Discussed:
How Vijay moved to the US to pursue his Master’s in mechanical engineering
Vijay’s successful 20-year career in engineering, finance and sales with Daimler
How Vijay became an accidental real estate agent
How the challenge of managing 32 open transactions inspired Vijay to build Trackxi
The advantage of a dedicated app that does one or two things well
Why Trackxi is a deal tracking software platform (vs. transaction management tool)
What differentiates Trackxi from other transaction management tools
How Trackxi serves teams, transaction coordinators and new agents
How Trackxi’s tracking system provides transparency around the agent’s value
How Trackxi’s visual dashboard delivers a State of the Union of an agent’s business
What to expect from Trackxi’s hands-on onboarding process
Connect with Vijay Gopalswamy:
Email vijay@trackxi.com
Resources:
The Close Picks for Best Transaction Management Software for 2023
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MLSs and associations face an issue Nick Gough refers to as RDR, an acronym for REALTORS don’t read.
So, what can these organizations do to communicate more effectively with the members they serve?
Nick is Founder and CEO at NoteRouter, the all-in-one email and texting platform designed to help organized real estate achieve record-high member engagement.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Nick shares his experience in leadership of associations and MLSs, explaining how it drove him to build NoteRouter.
Nick describes how NoteRouter helps users write content that connects with REALTORS individually and discusses why the presentation of your message matters as much as the value you provide.
Listen in for Nick’s insight on leveraging influencer marketing to reach more REALTORS and learn how to humanize your outreach by focusing on the real pains your members face.
What’s Discussed:
Why Nick dropped out of college and became a real estate agent at 18
Nick’s experience in leadership of associations and MLSs and how it drove him to build NoteRouter
How NoteRouter solves the problem of member engagement
Using email and text outreach to help associations and MLSs connect with the people they serve
How NoteRouter helps users write content that connects with REALTORS individually
Why presentation matters just as much as the value you provide
NoteRouter’s expertise in outbound communication through email service and telecom providers
Why NoteRouter is designed around the principle of permission-based marketing
Why it’s crucial for MLSs and associations to learn influencer marketing
The relationship between email open rates and subject lines
The benefit of humanizing your outreach and focusing on real pains members face
How the latest MLS outage impacted Nick and the team at NoteRouter
Connect with Nick Gough:
Email nick@noterouter.com
Resources:
The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference by Malcom Gladwell
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Teams are the future of real estate. And one proptech vendor is capitalizing on this trend by helping team leaders run an effective business.
What’s more, most of the teams on his platform double their business every year—even in the current market.
Brian Charlesworth is Founder and CEO of Sisu, an end-to-end real estate platform for teams that streamlines the transaction process, bringing all REALTORS, vendors and clients together.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Brian shares his background in technology and explains how helping his wife build her real estate team inspired the creation of Sisu.
Brian discusses the coaching Sisu offers to help team leaders scale their business and describes how the platform changes the culture of a real estate team.
Listen in to understand how the Sisu client portal works like a ‘pizza tracker’ and get Brian’s advice for other proptech vendors on building for real estate teams.
What’s Discussed:
Sisu’s function as an end-to-end real estate platform for teams
How Brian’s commitment to help his wife build her real estate team inspired the creation of Sisu
The coaching Sisu offers to help team leaders run an effective business
Why Brian believes teams are the future of real estate
What proptech vendors should consider in building for teams
Using the Sisu dashboard to track a team’s progress (e.g.: sales, potential revenue, etc.)
How Sisu integrates with CRMs and other platforms to streamline and automate real estate transactions
How Sisu changes the culture of a real estate team
Why most teams on Sisu double their business every year—even in the current market
How the Sisu client portal works like a ‘pizza tracker’
What Sisu is doing to make sure clients work with the same real estate professionals for years to come
Brian’s advice to proptech vendors on understanding how agents think
What real estate companies can do to solve for agent retention
Connect with Brian Charlesworth:
Resources:
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Two years ago, NAR policy was updated to give brokers and agents attribution rights, meaning they get to decide how they appear in listings.
But Homes.com employs a ‘your listing, your lead’ model, displaying the listing agent’s contact information.
So, does this comply with NAR’s attribution policy? And what else do we need to think about as companies like Zillow and Homes.com switch to IDX?
On this episode of Listing Bits, Michael Wurzer, CEO of real estate software company FBS, Greg Fischer, Owner of indie brokerage West + Main, and Andy Woolley, VP of Industry Development at Homes.com, join us to consider how ‘your listing, your lead’ jives with NAR’s IDX attribution policy.
Andy explains how ‘your listing, your lead’ differs from the referral model used on other sites, and Greg asks what is changing at Homes.com now that it’s a participant in the MLS.
Listen in for Michael’s insight on the repercussions on policy that come with mixing different use cases for data feeds and find out why it’s important for MLSs to develop a standard way for national portals like Homes.com to license data.
What’s Discussed:
How NAR IDX policy changed to give brokers and agents attribution rights
Whether Homes.com’s ‘your listing, your lead’ model complies with NAR’s attribution policy
Why most brokers aren’t using the ‘attribution source’ field in RESO’s data dictionary
Homes.com’s decision to display the listing agent’s contact information
Why Homes.com made the switch from its original MLS feeds to IDX
What is changing at Homes.com now that it’s a participant in the MLS vs. a media publisher
The potential repercussions on policy that come with mixing use cases for data feeds
What differentiates Homes.com’s ‘your listing, your lead’ from the referral model used on other sites
How Homes.com allows buyer’s agents to protect their relationships on the site
How showing a listing agent on a lead placard compares to seeing their name on a yard sign
The challenge Homes.com faces when it comes to agent responsiveness
Why it’s crucial for MLSs to create a standard way for national portals to license data
Connect with Michael Wurzer:
Connect with Greg Fischer:
Connect with Andy Woolley:
Resources:
Greg’s Twitter Thread on Your Listing, Your Lead
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Lauren Martin began her career in the fashion industry to be among powerful women.
But when she transitioned to proptech, she realized that real estate is the true pinnacle of girl power. And yet, women are not always represented in leadership.
So, when she landed her current role as Senior Account Director of Partnerships at RentSpree, Lauren approached her CEO about creating RENEW, the Real Estate Network for Empowered Women, an initiative that seeks to connect and champion female professionals across all sectors of the industry nationwide.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Lauren shares her journey from the fashion industry to proptech, describing how what she learned in fashion translates to real estate.
Lauren discusses her role at RentSpree, explaining how the platform partners with MLSs and other proptech companies to streamline the rental process—in a way that serves real estate agents and renters.
Listen in for insight on what inspired Lauren to build RENEW and learn how you can get involved in her initiative to elevate women in real estate!
What’s Discussed:
How Lauren was poached from a catering company to work in sales at Remine
What Lauren learned in the fashion industry that translates to real estate and proptech
Lauren’s insight on approaching uncomfortable conversations with humor
Lauren’s experiences working with MLS professionals who champion each other
How RentSpree partners with MLSs and proptech companies to streamline the rental process
The revenue sharing model at RentSpree and how MLSs benefit from it
How REALTORS benefit from building relationships with renters early in their housing journey
Lauren’s role handling both MLS and proptech partnerships at RentSpree
Lauren’s best travel hacks for real estate professionals
What inspired Lauren to start the RENEW initiative to elevate women in real estate
Connect with Lauren:
Email laurenm@rentspree.com
The RENEW Podcast by RentSpree
Resources:
Teresa King Kinney & Liz Sturrock on The RENEW Podcast EP001
Betsy Hanson of Markt on Listing Bits EP078
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From a vendor’s perspective, small MLSs are the most challenging to work with. And that’s no surprise, seeing as how they have fewer resources than the big players in the space.
So, how do we support MLSs with fewer than 400 members in keeping up with NAR rules, for example? Is there a way MLSs might share marketing, support and compliance services in a way that makes the market work better for all involved?
Betsy Hanson is General Manager and General Counsel at Markt, a multi-MLS service organization focused on pooling resources and expertise to serve MLSs, brokers and agents.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Betsy shares her journey from executive assistant at a small association to her current role at Markt, describing how she avoids the attorney’s reputation as the Department of No.
Betsy offers her take on what organized real estate is missing about the life and times of an ordinary REALTOR, why the average agent doesn’t understand the lawsuits facing the industry, and how those lawsuits might change the way we do things moving forward.
Listen in to understand how Markt works as an MLS back-office provider and learn how Betsy and her team are uniquely positioned to help MLSs of all sizes with local market delivery.
What’s Discussed:
Betsy’s journey from executive assistant at a small association to General Counsel at Markt
What differentiates the role of executive assistant from that of chief of staff
How Betsy avoids the attorney’s reputation as the Department of No
Betsy’s experience teaching English in China between undergrad and law school
What organized real estate is missing about the life and times of an ordinary REALTOR
Why the average REALTOR-on-the-street doesn’t know about the lawsuits facing the industry
How public perception of REALTORS remains positive despite lawsuits around compensation
Betsy’s predictions re: how the lawsuits facing organized real estate might play out
How Markt began as a way for MLSs to pool support resources and create efficiencies
Markt’s potential to solve the challenge small MLSs face in keeping up with NAR rules
Connect with Betsy:
Email betsy@themarkt.com
Resources:
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Most showing management software aggregates data. But how useful is it to get a report at the end of the month?
What if the data was presented in a way that helped agents answer seller questions in real time and make informed choices based on the numbers?
Wes Hartman is CEO of Showingly, a showing management solution that uses data and analytics to guide better decision-making.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Wes walks us through the key metrics Showingly looks at to drive pricing decisions and marketing strategy for a property.
Wes explains how Showingly is aggregating showing, offer and closed data to determine the best day and time to list a home and explores what simple things a seller can adjust to secure more showings.
Listen in to understand how the desire for choice might impact the future of showing management software and find out if Showingly’s approach is right for your brokerage or MLS.
What’s Discussed:
Wes’ background as an aspiring fighter pilot, professional cyclist, real estate agent and tech vendor
How Showingly’s use of data to guide decision-making differentiates it from other showing management solutions
The key metrics Showingly looks at to drive pricing decisions and marketing strategy for a property
What Wes’ team is doing to get honest feedback on a property (and why that’s such a challenge)
How Showingly uses showing, offer and closed data to determine the best day and time to list a home
How sellers might adjust pricing and Open House hours to get more showings
Wes’ take on the future of showing management software
Showing Hub’s solution to the demand for choice in showing management software
Why Wes is focused on building relationships with brokerages, MLSs and other showing management providers
How Wes thinks about MLSs building their own showing solutions and why competition drives innovation
Connect with Wes:
Email wes@showingly.com
Resources:
Our Sponsor:
A solid fan base is what makes a rock band successful, and it’s no different for real estate professionals.
But most of us focus on the individual transaction and miss an opportunity to build long-term relationships with our existing clients and turn them into raving fans.
And that means missed opportunities for referrals and repeat business.
Rivers Pearce is CMO of Milestones, a homeowner management platform that helps agents and lenders turn single transactions into forever clients.
On this episode of Listing Bits, Rivers shares his background as a touring musician and transition to proptech, discussing how he built the lead generation department at BoomTown.
Rivers explains why agents should market themselves as a trusted advisor for all things home and explores how real estate professionals benefit from referring business to home service professionals and other local businesses.
Listen in for Rivers’ insight on nurturing relationships with your existing database and learn how Milestones can help you provide the kind of value that turns one-off clients into lifelong fans!
What’s Discussed:
Rivers’ background as a touring musician and how he transitioned to proptech
How the skills Rivers developed as a performer translate to real estate and proptech
Rivers’ experience in building the lead gen department at BoomTown
How the way proptech supports real estate agents with lead gen has evolved over time
How Rivers thinks about using sphere of influence vs. portal aggregation to generate business
The opportunity to build relationships with homeowners that most REALTORS miss
Why agents should market themselves as a trusted advisor for all things home
The benefit of referring business to home service professionals and other local businesses
How Milestones functions as a homeowner management platform for agents
How Milestones creates a custom maintenance plan for homeowners
How Milestones helps REALTORS nurture relationships with their existing database
Connect with Rivers:
Email rivers@milestones.ai or ashley@milestones.ai for a 3-month free trial
Resources:
Our Sponsor: